Spiritualizing the scriptures?

This spiritualizing of words is also called the allegorical method. which we can see in the study of early faith struggled with and many compromised with it , part of empire building and titles all that comes with it,philosophy as the key to truth. Or trying to blend it  with revelatory concerns took place  seeking to avoid a way of inventing ever increasing adjustments to Scriptures meanings.

What we are dealing with here are changed definitions,  of words describing actual events. This produces confusion. It also provides the false sense of mystery and hidden knowledge. The hearers sense that the whole thing is incoherent. Some reject it outright and leave. Others, worried that it only appears incomprehensible because they are not smart enough to grasp it, go ahead and accept it.

EARLY ANCIENT ORIGINS OF SPIRITUALIZING

This  changes actual information into some kind of secret code, comes from the pagan Greeks, was common practice, IT;s where we get Circe, Kirke, the black sun themes out of it all.

Philosophers used it to convince their countrymen they were very intelligent, and able to delve into the secrets of the universe.Still going on today, trans humanism , a large part of the public conditioned state to be without question or told they will get some thing which ever shows,...

This is where sophistry comes in they were expert speakers used to persuade the people, I agree with angebert {they exchanged the revelatory for the gnosis}.The road to possible big trouble started here  in these practices.

Greek philosophy made its nearest approach to Christianity in Plato (427-347 B.C.). He elaborated the concepts of Socrates and wrote them down. Later, the teachings of Plato greatly influenced liberal Jewish and Christian writers. They were deeply impressed by his grasp of what men called esoteric (hidden) knowledge.

Origen (c. A.D. 185-c. 254) was the first to extensively bring Platonic error into early Christianity, became major practice inuse. The Neo-Platonic philosophy was just coming into prominence under the leadership of Ammonius Saccas.

Origen studied his methods carefully. Soon his reputation was widespread, and heathen and Gnostics in large numbers were attending his lectures. Because he taught a mixture of Christianity and Platonism, many heathen were converted to his worldly brand of Christianity, which can be referrede to as modern churchianity, or institutionalism.

Your question getting back to spirit led one has to remove many of the grids in the way of truth.  It;s doable and requires a personal relaitonship with Christ and in his requests for getting close not Eypt or greece. much after 300Ad was no longer related to the ecclesia of the past where God worked mightly, that would be shifted over to human control,men who asigned themselves divnity. Today revivals which term ndicates the state of death or slumber is sought, no the ability quenchteh spirit by merging him inlegalism of cultic practices out side the actual words and origanal scriprtures,,plus the relationship which was made free to all of his people needs to take  regaining the preisthood of the believers,  apart the spectorial nature by mere bystanders.  There is no indication he has left his body it;s the  other way around the body has left him in the tradtions of men and may be stuck as an innocous condtion over the centuries to soem degree.

Origen mastered the Hebrew language, gone to Rome, Arabia, Palestine and Greece for further enlightenment, and then wrote extensively, I have  no doubt exposure to the esoteric world was extensive it was very common that to seek the mystery religions base truths..

Because Origen was willing to dabble in Platonistic and Gnostic learning.  Origen was the first to reduce the allegorical method of Scripture interpretation to a organized systems, this would be passed onto our time to this day in various degrees requires people avoiding them as end in themselves..

Origen stood with Augustine as the other of the two most effective theologians of the ancient church world using these methods, Sophistry and hiearchy was added for human control to suppress the spirit led by the states new artifical religious inventions. 250Ad Carthege onward the Spirit would be subjected to silence by decalaration of the only the leaders who took those positions over for themselves.

Both taught these ways and are used today to support  like ideas and practices.The early mss was chanegd from ecclesia, to the hiearchal terminology to gather power for people who felt they could improve upon the work of the Holy Spirit. Amazing isn't it all?? The desire to be Spirit led over an esoteric broom ride is a far better choice.

The spiritualizing, or allegorical, method frees a person to be able to read into a passage anything he wants it to sayappears to be part of the desire in this! Why denominantions exist?aquestion ask,?, The Bible no longer is a message from God, but a collection of assumptions and theories devised by people chaneg as they continue to progress away from the truth.This is good reason we're deeply interested to what the truth is in all this.MS.

test it to see if it is true or not/..... getting back to Christ alone, only.

NW

1peter a look at words.

The word “foreknowledge” therefore refers to that counsel of
God in which after deliberative judgment, the Lord Jesus was to be delivered into human hands to be
crucified. In I Peter 1:20, He is the One who was foreordained before the foundation of the world to be theLamb who was to take away the sins of lost humanity. Thus, in I Peter 1:2, the word “foreknowledge”
refers to that counsel of God in which after deliberative judgment certain from among mankind were
designated to a certain position, that position being defined by the context.Thus, the second step in the salvation of the s inner is taken by the Holy Spirit who brings the one chosen to the act of faith in the Lord Jesus as Saviour.

walking

The first one is, “be sober.” The Greek word means, “to be calm and collected in spirit, to be temperate,
dispassionate, circumspect.” It speaks of the proper exercise of the mind, that state of mind in which the
individual is self-controlled, and is able to see things without the distortion caused by worry, fear, and
their related attitudes. The second admonition is, “hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.” The words, “hope to the end,” do not refer to the Christian living ina state of hopefulness to the end of his life. The word “end” is the translation of teleios (ôåëåéïò) 5 which means “perfectly, completely.” The root idea of the word refers to that which is in a state of completeness. don't be afraid it;s there for you now.
Thus this adverb qualifies the verb “hope” and describes this hope. It is to be a hope that is complete, a
perfect hope, wanting nothing, being in its character an assured expectation. One could translate, “set yourhope perfectly, unchangeably, without doubt and despondency.” sadly the last word here is often the condtion  of groups, jsut what is going on comes to mind.

Furthermore, they were not tocover up their characters as Christians by outwardly assuming a masquerade costume patterned after their former worldly garments or ways. The second use of the word “holy” is in the plural. They were to become holy in their personal experience. “Conversation” is the translation of a Greek word meaning “behavior.”
Today the word “conversation” means “talk.” In a.d. 1611, when the a.v. was translated, it meant “manner of life, behavior.” One must be careful to take into account changes of meaning in the case of certain words in the English Bible.\\learningto experience the inner lead can not be discovered by asking others but by exercizing faith in action. It;s prime reason we define it as a relationship not by sitting about but each tasking oneselve with faith to be used and going, the calls is to everyone not just what fits our agenda matter in fact I am willing to say give your self up all the way not just part of it, till than ity might not be faith at all.

PART TWO, Escape from legalism.

Legalism invariably leads to quarreling, and apparently it had done so in Galatia.  How strange!  Here were people who wanted to be under the law.  The law requires them to love their neighbors.  Yet the very reverse has happened.  They have been backbiting and devouring one another.  This behavior springs from the flesh, to which the law gives a place, and on which it acts.

(The Believer’s Bible Commentary by William MacDonald)

Galatians 5:19-21

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. FITS TODAY.

Galatians 5:22-26 BACK TO THE ECCLEISA

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.  And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.  Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Paul beseeches the Galatians to avoid that which is contrary to “walking in the Spirit,” which is a life under the bondage of legalism that can only give rise to conceit, provocations and envy.

The Christian is responsible to routinely confess (own up to, acknowledge) repent any known sin in his life (1 John 1:9); this clears out any hindrance to the control of the Holy Spirit from acting on our part, the all done outside of faith is sin,.  The second is to procure the control (empowerment) of the Holy Spirit by faith alone (Colossians 2:6). 2 Chronicles 16-9 This is in effect the being submissive to God’s Spirit in one’s daily living.

It;s nto hard to see the groweth your asking for just have to avoid the pitfals of bondage self and any of thee bondage religions or practices which are merely added by man as an absolute.

The real differnce .

• Love—that which God is (1 John 4:16) and which is preeminent in every believer led by the Spirit of God (1 Corinthians 13; Romans 5:5)
• Joy—extraordinary inner happiness and delight with God’s plan, which is fueled by the anticipation and assurance of the believer’s glorification upon Christ’s soon return.
• Peace—total contentment with God and His plan, which bleeds over on all fellow believers.
• Longsuffering—patience in afflictions, annoyances and persecutions.
• Kindness—compassion toward others.
• Goodness—the basic quality of the divine nature (God’s righteousness), which is the opposite of evil and which seeks to duplicate itself in all others.
• Faithfulness—abiding trust in God and His Son, which produces confidence, fidelity and reliability in the Christian life.
• Gentleness—the quality of humility and the expression of kindness.
• Self-control—the ability to avoid self-indulgence, which can only be achieved by walking in Christ.  It is used of the control of sexual desire in 1 Corinthians 7:9.

Same old dangers just new names.Grace abounds

Per your question, the spiritual illness associated with distorted truths are best answered here in your desire to know what real freedom is, The most destructive patterns found into our times as it was than, the spirit is quenched by so doing or is missing the other side of the complacy  state to a rigid spirit dead  dogmatist  how to do responses. NW I think ken is dead on.

In 1:11-2:21, Paul shows that he was divinely commissioned as an apostle and as such was not answerable to the Twelve in Jerusalem.  In chapters 3 and 4, he defends his doctrine of justification by faith alone, against the Judaizers who added works to faith as the necessary conditions for salvation.  In 5:1-6:10, the inspired apostle presents practical teaching and exhortation designed to correct the havoc which the teaching of the Judaizers was causing in the personal lives of the Galatian Christians.  In 4:19 Paul expresses the wish that the Lord Jesus might again be outwardly expressed in their lives. 

The Galatians had lost His beauty which before the coming of the Judaizers had been so prominent in their experience.  The Lord Jesus was not being expressed in their lives as heretofore.  This was the direct result of the Judaizer’s legalistic teachings.  The Galatian Christians, instead of depending upon the indwelling Spirit to produce in their lives the beauty of the Lord Jesus, now were depending upon self-effort in an attempt to obey law.  Accordingly, Paul’s practical teaching emphasizes the ministry of the Spirit, and the Galatians are exhorted to put themselves again under His control.

(Galatians in the Greek New Testament by Kenneth S. Wuest)



Galatians 5:1

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage

It is the same for the Christian.  The spiritual life, the life of “rest,” is centered in faith—faith in God’s Word.  It is not a life centered in a person’s self-efforts to keep any law.  Just as a person receives Christ Jesus in the matter of salvation (by faith alone in Christ alone), so is that person to walk (live) in Him (Colossians 2:6). 

The last verse of chapter 4 describes the believer’s position—he is free.  This first verse of chapter 5 refers to his practice—he should live as a free man.  Here we have a very good illustration of the difference between law and grace.  The law would say: “If you earn your freedom, you will become free.”  But grace says: “You have been made free at the tremendous cost of the death of Christ.  In gratitude to Him, you should stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made you free.”  Law commands but does not enable.  Grace provides what law demands, then enables man to live a life consistent with his position by the power of the Holy Spirit and rewards him for doing it.

(The Believer’s Bible Commentary by William MacDonald)

The believer is free from the law in three respects.  First, he is free from the condemnation it imposes upon the one who would disobey it.  Second, he is free from the law as means of justification.  Third, he is free from the obligation to render obedience to its statutes. (Galatians in the Greek New Testament by Kenneth S. Wuest)

this sets grace apart the caustic tendecdy of self works  quenchingthe spirit or external medium imposing guilt  as ministry of condemnation on an ongoing basis to hold one in fear or bondage to the law..the law of Christ is love, that love judges as well and sees the intent of all human hearts, what we desire is seen here.. thanks.

In depriving themselves of the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the living of a Christian life, they have fallen from grace.  The words “fallen from” are from “ekpipto” which means “to fail of, to lose one’s hold of.”  The Galatian Christians had lost their hold upon the grace for daily living which heretofore had been ministered to them by the Holy Spirit.  God’s grace manifest itself in three ways, in justification, sanctification, and glorification.  The context rules.  All through chapter five, Paul is talking about the Holy Spirit’s ministry to the believer.  Therefore “grace” here must be interpreted as the daily grace for living of which the Galatian Christians were depriving themselves.

But because they had lost their hold upon sanctifying grace, does not mean that God’s grace had lost its hold upon them in the sphere of justification.  Because they had refused to accept God’s grace in sanctification is no reason why God should withdraw His grace for justification.  They had received the latter when they accepted the Lord Jesus.  That transaction was closed and permanent at the moment they believed.  Justification is a judicial act of God done once for all.  Sanctification is a process which goes on all through the Christian’s life. 

Just because the process of sanctification is temporarily retarded in a believer’s life, does not say that his justification is taken away.  If that were the case, then the retention of salvation would depend upon the believer’s works, and then salvation would not depend upon grace anymore and we find ourselves in the camp of the Judaizers, ancient and modern.  Paul uses the symbol of the immoral conduct of a few in the church which was endangering the life of the entire local assembly. . .

The insidious work of these Judaizers was slowly permeating the . . . Galatian churches.  The verb is in the present tense, indicating that the process of doctrinal fermentation was going on, but that it had not yet corrupted the entire church structure.  It had made but a little progress.  Paul was more alarmed over its insidious nature than over the extent to which it had permeated the churches. (Galatians in the Greek New Testament by Kenneth S. Wuest)

(Galatians in the Greek New Testament by Kenneth S. Wuest)

Dear MS,  I waste very little time out side of grace and faith on  with doubt, legalism, spiritual procrastination or committees seeking to conjure up a complexity. I would take Christ at his word,the joy one may seek is not found in an endless sea of  if and maybe.. personally  faith can only grow by using it,,,,,!!!! not by titles or make believe status God wants us to be servants, therein the reality of seeing a manifesting God actually work on your part exists 2chronical's 16;9the rest is hot air, as you mentioned, I HAD  to learn it by going.

faith is living forth going process by which ever greater sight is granted in the going.NW.

kj3, Young's literal Nt here.

listening?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MlGmO_6EoE

It;s something dear to me,prayer here is relationship it;s a great  article and hope you get allot out of it, it;s something I do all the time as I go out, I send hours often in deep solace, it;s where real stuff happens.The lord is a manifesting God and requires us to listen at times for hours, before I act...  it;s always personal. 1 corinth 11,12,13 and 1Peter1.


 Pope, ask me  about the ecclesia it;s what it relay was before we added lot of extras the core is God first us and taking the it out, it;s simple, intimacy with God is the determining factor between a life giving faith or mechanical legal religion. My delight to share some really good discussion here for your benefits,


Over the years narrowway  I used to use new wind was ref to the spirit moved on my life to come out of routine into action, a pursuit of living God not just a theology or philosophy  but a living relationship. Love to you join us in prayer for our nation, it; serious  trouble the massive decline is at all levels, it reminds me of Rome in so many ways. Thanks peace to you all.

In christ we stand a solid rock.

Thanks kjos

“There is therefore now no condemnation
to those who are in Christ Jesus,
who do not walk according to the flesh,
but according to the Spirit.

the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus

has made me free from the law of sin and death. "

Romans 8:1-2

 

Thanks probe/

 

Religious Recovery--The Thirteenth Step

Many who become involved in studying The Course are active in self-help groups such as Twelve Step programs. They are seeking to make connections in their lives and discover who they truly are. They are willing participants in this transformation.

Many are desiring some form of "spirituality" and for those who see the Bible as being too harsh, The Course offers what they believe to be God's correction of our misinterpretation of the original message of Jesus.

The Course becomes the "thirteenth step" in recovery for those who are attempting to escape the rigid fundamentalism that has smothered them in the past. For them, the recovery process becomes a spiritual transformation.

The integration of psychology and spirituality becomes a lure that pulls them deeper into the web of deception and ultimately suffocates them. The biblical teaching of original sin is dismissed for the more palatable "original goodness."

This "thirteenth step" regards all faiths as a part of the whole; they are one, and a psychological unity of sorts is achieved. The Course becomes whatever the individual desires it to be, it is "Christian," but not if you don't want it to be. It's psychology, but more than psychology. It's not New Age, but then again it is.

The Course claims to have all of life's answers. It has become the "spiritually correct" solution to bring about peace and unity. However, in the end, this transformation brings spiritual death.

Helen Schucman's new do-it-yourself psycho-spirituality is not new. The Hindus have been taught for centuries that the world and all that is in it is Maya, or illusion.



 

Truth adrift, the false shores of entertainment sec1.

The ultimate goal of all ministry is to make every person who has submitted themselves to the gospel of the authority of Christ over their lives totally complete or mature in Christ; which is to say, spiritually whole not merely one sided and knowledgeable; which is to say, Holy made Holy In Christ righteousness.

This is the ultimate mission of all true ministry and every true minister, to make everyone to whom they minister spiritually complete in CHRIST.
 2 Corth 3, unto maturity the ability to discern and know the difference, avoiding the condition My people are being destroyed for lack of knowledge spoke in Hosea, is there personal responsibility, sure is. Can't stay still.

As you can see the culture is in steep decline and many using the same thought process that Einstein  may of  hit it right on, when he said his definition of insanity was to have done so.
Is there hope, I agree the next generation, I hope is the only chance to avoid the   swayed state we're in.Recent radio discussion.
My personal hope is change in the non conditioned minds will  overcome the mechanisms of being washed out.

 Encouraged by the young, yes ms I am hearing they see it,good , hope good news, they are actually able to do something about it.One can hope, as the speaker said it may be  our only hope.



NARROWWAY is dedicated to out reach, we are also dedicated the priesthood of the believers,  an alternative to bystanders  we agree and hold to the form that came from the beginning it was purely a relationship, with out allot of the leanings to far over to the political structures and personal ownership issues, fabricated out of human government, but that we are servants rather than owners of others. Christ came as servant he will be the judging king, he will sever the lie from the truth and those who amassed injustice at all levels will account for the corruption, done....

I had read of how many millions are killed  unborn, freely by choice part of social engineering to safe the skin of those fearing over population etc.
Pray for our nation, and each other, to see what kind of people we are becoming. I like to thank  God for Francis Chan word this week I saw him discuss the shameful spin on creation loving God factor without  wrath , not the real picture he mentioned is all man kind died but the few, he said,
I am sure the sea was full, and they pounded on the doors of the ark for getting they had before the flood, sarcasm as the land flooded and realized to late they missed the mark, that's the real picture, God destroyed the wicked all of them.... he also punishes the christian for complacency, Sardis and Laodacia, he loves them to come out of it, but if not, ? if a person is innocuous to their condition before God as unaware, it;s a sign they  have lost awareness or never had it.

One of those groups had forms and titles and wealth and all the goodies but God saw other wise they had nothing he was interested in.Take the journey into their history the real deep material.You won;t see any of that spoken to today.

 I had to change in my own life the God of love is also the judge and tells us in scripture  don;t fly why we need Jesus. Legalism is often the back wash for the absence or neglect of being led of the Spirit, profiling and guilt create doubt and weakness,  it fakes the picture and is used  as replacement it;s man working sir.

His own righteousness.. , faith is scary like the spiritual gifts, it;s God doing what he does best the impossible he loves we're scared of it, man micromanaging God with his theology.

Once you dig deep it;s all there why we hold the priesthood of the believers here totally.Take the time to learn the truth thanks for the calls...

 We're praying for the drug abuse and other substances and their deadly impact on the minds of so many these days.What kind of people are we becoming, ??? crime drugs and killing, guns do not kill we do, isn;t it time for the truth? Gun bans are a mask for the condition of the human heart sirs. So is political tyranny, rail cars, gas chambers, and prison camps and death camps, brain-washing, taxation, profiling thought and speech. All practiced by men in history for complete control.No new thing under the sun.

NW

Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKmdIdQg3Ks if your looking please lsiten here, it;s all our hope..

believe?

Still trapped, get free

The answer is clear. We must remove ourselves as far as possible from the beast. How far can we remove ourselves from it? Well, it depends upon our individual circumstances and how things develop.

At the very least we can withdraw our loyalties. We can certainly remove any and all feelings of dependency upon the beast. In most cases, we can also extract ourselves out of debt to the beast's usury-banking system by simply stopping our practice of borrowing from them at usury.

This would include throwing away our credit cards and monthly credit accounts, and start dealing in cash only. If we refrain from spending that which we do not yet have, we will keep ourselves out of debt, and that will eventually show us the way out of slavery altogether.

thanks

His way....only

Then the Lord said,
“Because this people draw near with their words
And honor Me with their lip service,
But they remove their hearts far from Me,
And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote,

(Isaiah 29)

Therefore behold, I will once again deal marvelously with this people, wondrously marvelous;
And the wisdom of their wise men will perish,
And the discernment of their discerning men will be concealed.”

And as opposed to repaying him in the way he had requested, they have made a religion out of what he had requested: in opposition remembering what he had done for them with true gratitude worshipping him in truth and spirit, they have made rituals to fulfill this “duty”, and instead of seeking him in a personal way (a way that is closer than a brother), and thus ultimately giving up their earthly, temporal lives to him, they have made up doctrines and rules to replace the surrendered-to-him-and-his-will personal relationship he had requested. John 15-17 .2 Chronicals 16;9

 Imagine now that you had once sensed the Spirit of this man leading you to truths that no human being had ever spoken, to have given it over to mere rote, and formalism. I would like to share a way back is not hard at all it;s quite simple actually... The living God lives in his people as  the Holy Spirit.
Your the temple now,  it;s not a hut  but you, portable mobile and able.

 It is not the natural man but from above, a new indwelling. The idea of revival is not something I support MS, sorry at large,to accept it for those out side of Christ yes, those in Christ if they require a revived sequence than that would mean something is dead, the   idea implies a state of death,would mean that Christ's work is in vain and as to his promises, to his people of his indwelling, they are able to quench him without faith and the use of denial theology to keep it man centered.That could suck the life out of  a group at that point it;s mere mechanical relgion, or performance profiling.

 That may more the case,continue on in death state or slumber they got themselves into, I would say the warnings are for those doing so found in revelation Ms, Sardis and laodacia are  prime examples of of dieing relationship,states perhaps by intention,  or simple ignorace of the real truths in all cases appear to be historical and theologically available to anyone relaly taking the whole thing serious enough to want to be deeply engaged in the only relationship which holds any eternal benefit. .Got to go back to what it was like before terms and forms got adjusted to supporting the poltical compromises found in ambition and power.

That is why we listed the pgs Hopwood books and now have obtained the research work on the nature of the mystery religions, and the early history of the ecclesia,  into latter centuries where key features got changed. His resources are great place to find old books containing interesting studies dealing with what your seeking.. You got to go far back before the reformers they they merely carried over some of the former gave it new names but the forms stayed the same I think that may be what you were wondering  about,  thanks may the quest go well.may youand your friends enjoy those truths..

The real awareness is one that will lead far  ahead into maturity and awareness. Start digging, loads of gold there.John 15-17






I endorse KJ3,  Young's literal etc or any other which would promote them for the removal of  non existant head ship terms added out of tradition. Christ centered.we're servants dear one that's it and  need to remmberthe modle Christ set, he could have been king, and loaded himself up, but he did other wise,. Money is not evil, it is the love of it that drives people over the edge., and power,  Really simple  it;s all at the core of those changed what  we spoke of.

God sees us all, heart intents. thanks let love and wisdom rule , love is not without knowledge, discernment it watches what goes on seeks to sift junk from the truth.  Thanks

THE HOST CAN NO LONGER SUPPORT THE PARISITE.

Do not blame Caesar, blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom and danced in his path and given him triumphal processions

Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of the new wonderful good society which shall now be Rome's, interpreted to mean more money, more ease, more security, and more living fatly at the expense of the industrious."

-- Marcus Tullius Cicero

A real life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oad8ov10AjY

The differnce between the imaginary and the real.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Gt00GFf9M

Eph 6, .


nw

Thinking yet? or we just living the short term

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQsBRpj5B7M thinking out side the box?

Despite our  state the few are seeing the coming issues, will contain insurmountable obstacles the age old quest for people to become god like is under way. Thanks,  there appear to a greater awareness
now setting in. The age ole goal to be God like is not new it;s been along term endeavor in the quest for knowledge in all departments.Most all modification behaviour  of humans is to conform them in the status quo ruling.... Thanks

  great articles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMZGGQ0ERk love him great  view

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iz3VjoHXLA very good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZHRgTskEhE&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=b0-zKZhdjsIa few insights.

Avoiding Sardis?

Like the city itself, the sentries or gate keepers in the assembly had fallen asleep on duty and did not stop the world from coming in. That's all of us, often God is used as an entitlement plane does not work.As you can see the extent of the national or personal damage done by failed thought processes.

The ecclesia simply met in homes, sophististry was not yet, they were spirit led of that time..

.They compromised so much with the world, from it;s paganized ideals  they began to look like the world and the world . Their was no longer any distinction they would cooperate with everything and follow it. They had it easy, and they were coasting on the successes and work of the previous generation instead of writing new stories of great works for Christ.

This is extremely  famuilar, there is no new thing, divided and each one grabbing what part of something they think makes up some kind of whole without ever taking the time to stop and see what it really is to stand in Christ.

Author of the book mentions this;
If your aseembly  is not under attack, perhaps you need to do, as Sardis needed to do. That is first, repent and that repenting must include an underlying change of mind and dicernment in the assembly. You must step from death to life. Make the focus as reaching into world, instead of getting the acceptance of the world. NW taking the leap of faith. It;s a step we took 12 years back.
Acts 1,2,3.

NW

narrowway2011 Those deep facts.

Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Einstein


History repeats it self to those who know no better, souls are bought at a cheap price.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPIOkdNL-QQ&feature=pyv


want to get free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

This is the air I breath,  it;s the ambition of my existance.... enjoy love to you all out there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oad8ov10AjY

A fresh look inside!

Discussion of interest on sent article,

Spiritual warfare.

Trust and learn faith.

The result is the church-assembly divided again. Just as tragic, millions of terribly hurt people, believers as well as unbelievers, go without help or go to counselors who may be atheists or Christians inexperienced in the demonic realm. The Scripture-versus-experience issue is unfortunate, unbiblical, and illogical. Never in Scripture are the two held to be mutually exclusive. They are always seen to be two sides of the same coin. God’s written revelation is the Bible.

That written revelation is not given in an abstract theological form, however. It is given in historical form as God makes Himself known to His people and to the world in the context of human experience. A knowledge of God divorced from the experience of God led to the Crusades, the Inquisition, and other chapters in the colonization of the heathen world by organized Christianity too shameful for words.

We all recognize this in our evangelism. We commonly say we want to help people find Christ as “their personal Savior.” We know informing them about God and Jesus is not enough—they must experience Him personally. God must first be experienced before He is understood. that my dear sir is exactly the point and why things are as they are today to , I say that in love, but ask your self how many people do you know get to gather to go out and seek God and wait on him? zero for the most part, let me share a smile I do so and often, all I can night or day, waste no time in so doing, life goes by to fast so does all the opportunity lost it’s foolish to wait. put things aside to go or God will put us aside.

We all recognize this to some degree in our development of theology. We realize that God’s truth is not discovered primarily by the human brain but by the human heart as revealed by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 2:10). Thus if we had to make the choice of being taught about God by a brilliant, highly trained, but “unsaved” theologian, or a semi-literate but Spirit-filled believer, we would probably choose the believer.

While he may not be able to define God theologically, he can lead us to God experientially. Why do we evangelicals so distrust experience with the spirit world? (Why do we develop theologies about this dimension of reality about which we are personally ignorant except through biblical exegesis? ((thanks true))). amen..

The misrepresentation of those failures is stunning and damaging, this is why we took it to task to answer those questions rather than brush them aside or run back to never knowing the difference in action or word 1. by experiencing. 2 and factual truths .

Can a theology of Satan and demons that is both true and useful for ministry really be developed by theologians studying their Hebrew and Greek Bibles while sitting in their air-conditioned offices apart from at least some personal experience? If the theologians in question did not bring limiting preconceptions about what demons can and cannot do to their study, they could possibly, exclusively through the Scriptures, develop guidelines to practical demonology that could then be tested by experience. Based on the results of that experience, they would then need to readjust their demonology to fit the contemporary assault of evil supernaturalism the body is facing today.??? ((I agree that's the issue...))

The primary reason...!

The basic tenets of our historic Christian theology probably did not change. In fact, they only became firmer. What did happen, however, is that we were forced to return to Scripture for help, again and again. We began to examine anew certain dimensions of our unreflective theology when it did not prove congruent with our own valid experience with God, with people, and, in many cases, with Satan and demons. Therefore, correct biblical interpretation is that interpretation which is most consistent with experience. Theology which is contradicted by experience, or at the least brought into question, is theology that needs to be reexamined. To declare that theology must be maintained even if it is challenged by on-going experience is legalism, pharisaism, dogmatism, and evidence of subtle arrogance.

This perhaps the most deadly stigma found in evangelical denominations at the present, for those outside the which have formed an ekklesia type thinking escaping the drift into institutionalism is far more free in the expressing truth seeking,obtaining benefits found in his people. Stott, Barclay, expressed their concerns for the rigid lifeless formalism controlling away the relational connection. See Stott in his book 1-2 Thessalonians, Barclay on Corinthians, both described reluctance to go back to relational personage in which all were bringing their fruit to share.

In the wake of the eighteenth-century rise of rationalism known as the Enlightenment, Western theology lost an intuitive, historic understanding of the spirit world))). As in all other areas where the church has ignored or resisted dimensions of biblical reality, the process of rediscovery usually comes through experience. This experience calls theology into question at that point. The theological status quo will always resist the reformers, however.

That's always the case, it’s easy to not get in the cross hairs of devil by staying hid and lip services the faith, or remain removed from taking task to heart,.

The status-quo theologians and Bible teachers, if they hold a high view of Scripture, will go back to Scripture, not to openly challenge their own presuppositions in light of the experience of their brethren, but to defend their presuppositions against their misguided brothers.

The conservatives,reformers or others, if they also hold to a high view of Scripture, will also return to Scripture. If they are honest, they will return not to prove themselves right and their status-quo brethren wrong, but to better understand what their experience is telling them.

Jesus did what he said and went to places the scribes dare not go other than their final sentence through rejection to hell, as they were of their father the devil. Jesus dealt with other side, as we should pray and reach out seeing we are the temple of God , we are given his power...prayer 1 Corinth 4; 23-24,

When they do, they will either call into question their experience, their understanding of Scripture, or both.
Usually the latter will occur. If their experiences are valid they will find that they are supported by Scripture much more than they had first imagined. They will also find that Scripture will cause them to restate their experience and not go to extremes. They will recognize that they too, as all men, are susceptible to both deception and error.

The result should be a newly formulated theology more consistent with both Scripture and experience. This is what is occurring today with the bodies “new” experience with demons. The demons have always been with us. But, as conservative evangelical theologians and Bible teachers would do well to think deeply....Hopwood warns that conservatism was the first step downward in leaving relationship based faith heading into external organization driven by gnosis he mentions,evanglici, see his book, that does not mean scripture it refers to their propensity to add and deny things by explaining them away and changing the Oder God designed?

Our theology of the spirit world must fit the reality of contemporary human anguish. Particularly for us in the West, where materialism is the religion of many, and where occultism, Satanism, and the New Age movement flourish, a status-quo practical demonology will not do. With sexual abuse and even Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) of children no longer a secret, but almost a national epidemic, status-quo counseling will do no longer.

Been telling us for years, as we see the day of the final conflict between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of evil approaching, an outpouring of demonic evil such as the church and the world has not known since the early centuries of the Christian era will occur.

If we are entering that period, and most biblical scholars suspect we are, then we should expect Satan to come into the open and through lying, deceitful spirits assault mankind in general and the body in particular. Is that what we are witnessing today? Only time will tell.

One thing is absolutely certain, however:

Demons flow where abuse flows. Demons flow where Satanism, Satanic occult practices, and the New Age movement flourish. Demons enter the bodies lives of abused children, especially those who have experienced SRA, and of practicing New Agers. The church in the West will find it difficult to bring salvation and healing to the survivors of such evil if it maintains its present status-quo,unworkable theology of experiential demonology.

What happens to their world view when they become Christians? It becomes confused. That confusion has at least a dual source: First, Western missionaries, though looked upon as experts about things spiritual, are primarily ignorant of the activity of the spirits. Second, their national church leaders were trained in their ministry by missionaries ignorant of the spirit world. I was one such missionary. I know as well here, it’s missing...

The Holy Spirit vs. Spirits of Slavery and Fear

Verse 15 is one of the great verses of Scripture setting the “Spirit of adoption,” the Holy Spirit, over against the opposing spirit,“the spirit of slavery leading to fear.” The Spirit of God, even when He is the Spirit of conviction of sin, is always the Spirit who lets us know we belong to God and His kingdom, Paul is implying. He builds up. He encourages. He blesses. He enlightens. He makes Jesus more and more precious to us. He empowers us to the defeat of the flesh, the world, and Satan and his demons. It is he and healone who cries within us, “Abba! Father!”It is the other spirit who tells us lies.

The writer of Hebrews says that the other spirit, Satan, is the one who binds us in fear (Heb.2:15). We have been delivered from him, however, so we are not to fear him or his. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of liberty, of adoption. He lets us know that we belong to God. He “bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God” (v. 16). The other spirits either whisper denials of our true sonship or say we are unacceptable to God, even though we may be His sons. Thus Jesus says the other spirit is “a liar, the father of lies, whenever he speaks a lie he speaks from his own nature” (John 8:44). When he speaks lies to us, we are to shut him up as Jesus did (Matt. 4:10; 16:23). We are to resist him with the words of truth (Eph. 6:17; James 4:7–8). I hold to this in my mind, I waste little time with debates, the war is on sir, the other stuff is man talking. The battle for minds is onging process.

Thanks KJOS

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was born into a caring, influential but unchurched German family in 1906. The sixth of eight children, he shocked his older brothers when, at age 14, he announced he wanted to study theology. It made no sense to them! Nineteen-year-old Klaus saw the church as nothing more than a "poor, feeble, boring, petty bourgeoisie institution." And Karl-Friedrich, already a young, respected scientist, accused him of "escaping into the fog of metaphysics."

But Dietrich stood his ground. "Even if you were to knock my head off, God would still exist," he replied.[2-p, 38]

Seven years later, at age 21, he graduated summa cum laude from the University of Berlin. Even the well-known theologian Karl Barth (with whom Bonhoeffer often disagreed) praised his doctoral thesis, "Communion of Saints," as a "theological miracle."[3]

Still too young to pastor a German church, Bonhoeffer spent the next year (1928) in Spain as an assistant pastor. Before returning home, he shared his concerns in an inspiring lecture to high-school boys. Eric Metaxas summarized its main point in his biographical book, Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Prophet, Martyr,

"...the essence of Christianity is not about religion at all, but about the person of Christ.....
"He... attacked the idea of 'religion' and moral performance as the very enemies of Christianity and of Christ because they present the false ideas that somehow we can reach God through our moral efforts. This led to hubris and spiritual pride, the sworn enemies of Christianity....

"He differentiated between Christianity as a religion like all the others— which attempt but fail to make an ethical way for man to climb to heaven of his own accord—and following Christ, who demands everything, including our very lives....

"He identified 'the Greek spirit' or 'humanism' as 'the most severe enemy' that Christianity ever had....a challenge to the honor belonging to God alone."[2-p,

83-85]

Before long, another "enemy" would rise in fierce opposition to God's honor. Its dark shadow was already visible on the horizon.

THE RELIGION BEHIND NAZI FANATICISM

Hitler's rapid rise to power raised hope as well as fear. While the masses idolized him for restoring national pride and order, the Bonhoeffers and countless others sensed the horrors ahead.

In January 1933, Hitler became Reich Chancellor of Germany. A month later, the burning of the Reichstag building multiplied his power. Many suspect that this "convenient crisis" was merely the first of many planned "emergencies" used to justify repression, war, and mass murder.

In March that same year, Dachau, the first concentration camp opened its doors to Hitler's foes. Five years would still pass before the infamous Kristallnacht (Night of Broken Glass) would trigger Hitler's monstrous massacre of Jews.

Hitler and his SS officers were fascinated by an occult blend of Theosophy, Nordic mythology and Aryan superiority. Yet, the reigning god in their pagan system was the Fuehrer himself, the "Savior" of Germany. Pretending at first to be a Christian, his hatred for the Bible would soon shake the church. As Metaxas points out,

"[Heinrich] Himmler was the head of the SS and was aggressively anti-Christian...For Himmler, the SS was itself a religion, and its members, postulants in its priesthood. Many SS rituals were occultic in nature....

"[Reinhard Heydrich said] 'You’ll see the day, ten years from now, when Adolf Hitler will occupy precisely the same position in Germany that Jesus Christ has now...

"Rosenberg was one of the Nazi leaders most active in creating this ‘new religion.'...[He] was an 'outspoken pagan' who, during the war, developed a thirty-point program for the 'National Reich Church.'... A few points of his program illustrate what Hitler...would move toward:

• "...immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible...
• "The National Church will clear away from its altars all crucifixes, Bibles...
• "On the altars there must be nothing but Mein Kampf... and to the left of the altar a sword.
• "...the Christian Cross must be removed from all churches... and it must be superseded by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika."

• [2-pp.170-171]

Hitler chose the corrupt Ludwig Muller to lead the new “united German church.” In line with Nazi ideology and social Darwinism, the new Reich Bishop announced that “love” among German Christians would have a “hard, warrior-like face. It hates everything soft and weak." [173]

Next, Muller began rewriting the Bible. His twisted theology was published in a pamphlet titled “German Words of God.” It opened with this introduction: “I have not translated the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7) but Germanized it." For example:

"...since meekness was not, an acceptable 'German' attitude, Muller had given his comrades something more in keeping with the hearty Germanic image he wished to promote: 'Happy is he who always observes good comradeship. He will get on well in the world."[2-pp,290-291]

THE CONFESSIONAL CHURCH


While most of the German Lutheran church was transformed into a Nazi puppet, Bonhoeffer helped establish the "Confessional Church." He encouraged pastors to resist the exclusion of Jewish-Christian pastors, to refuse to sign the obligatory loyalty oath to Hitler, to speak out for the persecuted Jews, and to yield to God's Truth rather than Nazi threats.

To most pastors this was too great a challenge. They knew well that compromise would secure their position and government wages. Resistance could be costly.

For Bonhoeffer, this was a time of conflict and discouragement. Few seemed to heed his call to a deeper, sacrificial faith:

"He felt that what was especially missing from the life of Christians in Germany was the day-to-day reality of dying to self, of following Christ with every ounce of one’s being in every moment, in every part of one’s life....
"...one’s faith must be shining and bright and pure and robust. It must be free of... mere religiosity, [otherwise] the Christ whom one was bringing into the world and the culture was not Christ at all, but a tawdry man-made counterfeit."

[2-p.248]

Bonhoeffer called this shallow belief system a mere "religion," and he urged pastors to embrace a costly Christianity without religious trappings. For himself, the cost included criticism, rejection, slander and finally execution.

"...the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me." John 16:2-3

"RELIGIONLESS" CHRISTIANITY

In April 1943, two years before the war ended, Bonhoeffer was arrested and imprisoned at Tegel Prison in Berlin. For the next 18 months he would have plenty of time to read his Bible, ponder church issues, write letters, and encourage guards and fellow prisoners with God's love and gospel. Among his sources of comfort were some precious hymns he had safely stored in his memory.

A "central part of Bonhoeffer's life and theology" was the Sermon on the Mount.

[2-p.113] In his 1937 book, The Cost of Discipleship, he tells us what it meant to him. Notice how its first part (Matthew 5:3-12) clashes with shallow religiosity. [A brief statement by Bonhoeffer follows each verse below]:

• "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".

• ("For His sake they have lost all....They have no other hope but Him who called them.")
• 
  
• "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted." ("...refusing to be in tune with the world or to accommodate oneself to its standards, [they] mourn for the world, for its guilt, its fate...")
• "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." ("...they renounce every right of their own and live for the sake of Jesus Christ.")
• "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for [God's] righteousness, for they shall be filled." ("...in their hunger they are sustained by the Bread of Life."
• "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy." ("...they go out and seek all who are enmeshed in the toils of sin and guilt...")
• "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God." ("...those who have surrendered their hearts completely to Jesus that He may reign in them alone.")
• "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." ("...they overcome evil with good and establish the peace of God in the midst of a world of war and hate.") [126]
• "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:3-11 ("...the world will be offended...")[2-p.120-127]

It's humanly impossible for us to meet those high standards. Only when God works in and through us by His Spirit, can we claim those promises!

Now compare His high calling with the following definition for "religion" found in Webster's Dictionary. Notice that it ignores Christ's redemptive grace and the actual work of the Holy Spirit -- the essence of true Christianity:

• The outward act of form by which men indicate their recognition of the existence of a god or gods having power over their destiny...
• the feeling or expression of human love, fear or awe of some superhuman and overruling power....
• a system of faith and worship; a manifestation of piety; ethical ideologies...
• the modes of divine worship proper to different tribes, nations or communities and based on belief held in common....
• Conformity in faith and life to the precepts inculcated by the Bible, respecting the conduct of life and duty toward all of man;
• monastic or religious order subject to a regulated mode of life.

Warm feelings or human conformity to a set of precepts is not Biblical Christianity! As Bonhoeffer wrote,

"...the essence of Christianity is not about religion at all, but about the person of Christ. ...religion was a dead, man-made thing, and at the heart of Christianity was something else entirely -- God himself, alive."[2-p.83]

The key is knowing and following Jesus Christ -- bringing His life-changing Truth into a hurting world -- no matter what the cost.

Bonhoeffer did. In 1930, while studying in New York, he found relief from the painfully liberal atmosphere of Union Theological Seminary by teaching children's Sunday schools classes at a black Bible-centered church in Harlem. Two years later, he chose to live in one of the darkest parts of Berlin so that he could shine God's light into the hearts of its troubled boys.

During his two last years of earthly life, God used him to demonstrate His love to every prison guard and fellow prisoners that sought hope in the midst of Nazi terrors. Then, facing death, he said his last farewell: "This is the end...For me the beginning of life."[2-p.528]

"...none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God." Acts 20:24

THE FINAL WITNESS - April 9, 1945

The 39-year-old Bonhoeffer spent only two days at Flossenburg death camp. The day before his execution, he gave his last sermon and shared God's saving message with the other prisoners in his cell. The next day, he walked calmly to the gallows. The camp doctor who watched the execution would later write his observations:

"Through the half-open door in one room of the huts I saw Pastor Bonhoeffer, before taking off his prison garb, kneeling on the floor praying fervently to his God. I was most deeply moved by the way this lovable man prayed, so devout and so certain that God heard his prayer.
"At the place of execution, he again said a short prayer and then climbed the steps to the gallows, brave and composed. His death ensued after a few seconds. In the almost fifty years that I worked as a doctor, I have hardly ever seen a man die so entirely submissive to the will of God."[2-p.532]

---

1. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship (The Macmillan Co., 1949, German version: 1937), p.45-46, 49.

2. Eric Metaxas, Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Prophet, Martyr (Thomas Nelson, 2010) Page numbers cited with quotes.

3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer

4. Dr. R. F. Burton Nelson, "Friends He Met in America," Christian History Magazine, Issue 32: "Dietrich Bonhoeffer: Theologian in Nazi Germany." 1991.

---

Bonhoeffer, Part 2: Tyranny brings tough choices: Submit, Compromise, Resist and Risk Death

Bonhoeffer, like other young men, was drafted into the German army. Refusal meant death. A temporary deferral bought him time but no clear answer. Must he, a Christian pacifist, obey and fight for Hitler against England and America? Was there a better way?

 

 

Yes we;re praying for America as well the huge economic night mare is not over, the debt is beyond repair, writing off worthless paper and inflated  entitlement will end up  failing,  Our faith is in Christ, always was now for 40 years.

 

 What do we see?  the out reach sees loads of drug issues as we go, we have hope many also are waking to the foolishness of our times. We have a great deal of prayer and hope for the many we have other issues, Australasia Sholom ministry did a fine article on the historical back drop credit them for effort to add such deep insight. We agree as well to the nature of the first  3 centuries of faith bond life styles in which the Holy Ruled the lives of those people.

 

 

 

 

Priesthood of all the believers.

Since Christ has risen, we Christians have become the templeof God. At His resurrection, Christ became a "life-giving spirit"(1 Corinthians 15:45, NIV). Therefore, in the believers, thus making them His Temple, His house. It is for this reason that the New Testament always reserves the word church(ekklesia) for the people of God. It never uses this word to refer to a building of any sort.


Your right,what it all was for one another to build each other up. I beleive that is all posoible with all of us if we get out of the way of God and let him take over?Love to you thanks.Pray for all our nation, and one another.
NW

Kj3, young's literal

Yes ,we;re endorse the Young's literal and Kj3  to offer an alternative the ecclesiastical modified translations to return back to community type thinking rather than hiearchal, which was derived out of political interests over the actaul functioning body, words of "Jesus when he said my ecclesai". which was largely a friendship based  gathering not  professional  -formal, the community  it was fully Spirit led and in full  respecting the priesthood of all the believers, avoiding  old covanant priest modles.

 If your interested the reading of Pgs Hopwood, The great eccleastical conspiracy,covers the lage discussions taking place, the early account of the MSS  changed to support the  hiearacahl structure over the communuity is described in the Hopwood Book The religious experience of the primitive Church 1927.The list is extensive and details can be found without to much trouble thanks.

A ship in a new sea, thinkling different

What profit a man if gain the whole world and loose his soul  in the last hour? what you see is all temporary, will mean nothing in the end what you can not see is eternal...... all things names titles we assign our selves are mere products  of buckets filled with holes and hold no water.


Think on things eternal where your treasure is so their is your heart, are you free yet? In the end it is love that will endure for ever, in eternity Hope will be sight, faith will have been answered and rewarded but love will endure on,far beyond time.

NW His ecclesia with it;s eyes fixed else where.

Street minsitry

"Whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant."  The difference in the Christ Life... 

NW