Sunday, October 27, 2019

SPIRIT LED OR DOUBT LADEN

https://books.google.com/books?id=XO4pAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=origins+of+the+king+craft+and+priest+craft+come+from&source=bl&ots=mihOope-HH&sig=ACfU3U1neHtmaFCW2MV53Xri6juPfK8POA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2jtqarr3lAhWJjVkKHY6LDGIQ6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=origins%20of%20the%20king%20craft%20and%20priest%20craft%20come%20from&f=false

 Those who were looking in the depth of origins forms  here is the site and well worth  the read,,,, for those seeking the deep truths,  ENJOY




 Chapter 4
What Went Wrong?
Living Organism to Lifeless Institution

We have seen that Christ imparted to His followers by word and deed that in His kingdom there was to be no hierarchy, no power-plays and no titles. Instead, there was to be mutual foot-washing, modeled by the Lord Himself.

Then it was shown that Jesus is building His ekklesia on earth. Christ told the disciples that when His resurrected body went back to the Father, they would continue His body (His life) all over the earth. They were to continue His legacy of a kingdom in which all were brothers and sisters, and no one was “over” others.

But the history books reveal that something went wrong, dreadfully wrong. Before we get into some details, here’s a snapshot of some key moments when what Jesus initiated was completely derailed.

**Around AD 150 Clement made a distinction between “priest” and “laity.” This set in motion the divide of “clergy” and “laity,” the “ordained” and the “parishioners.”

**Around AD 250 the practice of “one-bishop rule” took root, and each bishop’s rule was defined territorially (see Judy Schindler, Part 2, Chapter 2).

**Around AD 325 the emperor Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. From this point on, the civil rulers would have a heavy presence in what occurred in the visible church.

Thus, what began as a Christ-driven, Spirit-led formation of ekklesias morphed into a power-based, hierarchy-fed institution.

The expression of Christ through gifts of the Spirit functioned in a beautiful way in the early church. There was no "institution" at the beginning.The "institution" started taking shape from AD 150 onwards. As this unfolded, spiritual gifts became unnecessary, for the "institution" saw itself as the dispenser of grace. This is not to say there were no spiritual gifts anywhere, but it is to say that as the "institution" became more and more powerful, the Holy Spirit became less and less a part of the mix.

The Striking Features of the First Century Ekklesia

First century pagan religions and Judaism all had these basic characteristics: (1) specific experts who led the religious practices; (2) specific places (temples) where the people came to practice the religion; and (3) specific religious rituals that were carried out at designated ways and times.

It is precisely these three marks that were absent from the early church. They functioned with no “clergy” (all of the saints were “clergy,” the Lord’s “inheritance”), no religious buildings (they met “home to home”), and no set rituals (“each one of you has a song, a teaching, etc.”).




However, as was mentioned above, this simplicity was compromised in the Second and Third Centuries with the introduction of the leader/people distinction, and the increasing focus on the “bishop” as the one to whom submission must be given.

The third major capitulation occurred in the Fourth Century when the church was recognized as the central religion of the Roman Empire by Constantine, and granted special privileges by the State.

          From that time on, the relation of the Christian Church to secular           rulers, as well as the growth of the Church’s own secular power,           was bound to influence the development of the Christian religion           itself. (O’Grady, p. 73) 

Constantine: The Fusion of Church and State

Constantine was an opportunistic person. From AD 306 – 337 he was the leader of the Roman Empire. The evidence points to the fact that he saw in Christianity a way to hold his vast empire together.

          It is probable that Constantine became convinced that hope for           the future lay in the determination and orderliness of Christianity, and that he wanted to enlist its growing strength in     the service of the Empire. His aim in government was to preserve some form of unity, and it may have been partly for such reasons      of policy that he accepted the Christian religion. (O’Grady, p. 75)

For a number of years before Constantine took the throne, the bishops had been having heated squabbles over the person of Christ – was He of the same essence as the Father, or was there a time He did not exist? In response to this in-fighting, Constanine

          Needed Christianity to be doctrinally consistent and centrally           organized if it was going to help him hold together the vast empire           he had inherited. Hoping to create a strong sense of unity and           cohesion among his subjects, he summoned some three hundred           bishops . . . To a meeting in the Turkish city of Nicea. (Valantasis,   p. Xxii)

The Council of Nicea in AD 325 “formulated a credo, a pledge that all Christians could recite that affirmed their basic beliefs.” (Valantasis, p. Xxii)

It must be underscored what happened here. A powerful civil ruler is calling church leaders together, and putting heavy pressure on them to come up with a statement that will significantly contribute to the unity of a worldly empire. “After the Council of Nicea, the imperially sanctioned and militarily supported separation of Christians into two camps, heretical and orthodox, began.” (Valantasis, p. xxiv)

Of course, the unity Constantine tried to create at Nicea failed miserably. Nevertheless, he kept asserting his authority by intervening in church affairs in hopes of calming the theological storms.

          In his opinion, the Emperor, by virtue of his office, had the right    to intervene in such controversies and to preside over the councils           convened to settle them . . . . Constantine, himself, wanted to show           that, by virtue of his Imperial office, he was supreme in           ecclesiastical affairs, hoping thereby to mould the Church into an           instrument for consolidating the absolute power of the Emperor.           (O’Grady, p. 75)

The truth is, after the Council at Nicea there was a lot of confusion. Theological unanimity was a joke. Some exiled for their views were called back; some once viewed as heroes were exiled. All this had nothing to do with Christ. It was about raw power and control. HE THEM BY THEIR NECKS  SIR.
          Doctrinal and personal quarrels multiplied and the Emperor           intervened either to support or to exile the leaders of the           conflicting parties. Three years after accepting the decrees of the           Council of Nicea, Constantine changed his mind, recalled Arius           from exile and supported the anti-Nicene party until the end of his           reign. (O’Grady, p. 92)

Once the State was subsidizing the church, the power of the bishops kept expanding.

          By the time Christianity became the official religion of the    Empire, the power of the bishops had become enormous. In his          diocese the bishop commanded almost supernatural prestige; he   was the popular choice of the people and he now had official        powers of jurisdiction over his clergy, and over any other case   brought before him. Because the Church in the fourth century,           through this far-reaching power of the bishops, had become an           indispensable part of the social welfare of the State, it seemed at          times that it would even become an organ of the Imperial      Government. (O’Grady, p. 77)



So by AD 350 the original vision of Jesus Christ was totally abandoned, and had been replaced by a human organization calling itself “church,” which had jumped into bed with the State.MONEY LOVE,  “The Church was taking Roman organization, philosophy and jurisprudence into its service.” (O’Grady, p. 61)  The church had become a business, a bureaucracy, and was now consumed with preserving and perpetuating its religious accoutrements. As the Cardinal said to Christ in Brothers Karamazov, “We took from him, the wise and mighty spirit of the wilderness, what You rejected with scorn – Rome and the sword of Caesar.”

“Orthodoxy”

We hear the word “orthodoxy” and generally think, “that which is right (orthodox) in contrast to that which is wrong (heterodox).” But it is just not that simple. Remember, the primary impetus to have “Christianity doctrinally consistent and centrally organized” came from a self-aggrandizing emperor. Constantine presided at the Council of Nicea in AD 325. Do you think the bishops could be objective about the issues before them with the Emperor sitting there? How many were exiled for giving the wrong answers?

An “Orthodoxy” in concrete was being formed by bishops as ecclesiastical power was being centralized in Rome more and more, and civil emperors shaped the agenda for the church. Those who questioned “orthodoxy,” or stood outside of it, found themselves facing many dangers.

          But, already in the fourth century, a persecuted Church had           turned persecutor. Those who disagreed with ‘orthodox’                teachings were stripped of their authority and exiled. In one           instance, when all persuasion had failed to bring the dissenters           back into the fold, Church and State joined to put them down by           force. These dissenters were the Donatists. (O’Grady, p. 79)

In the Fourth Century the Emperor had the upper hand in church affairs. It came to be a deadly assumption that the civil leader would take the helm in theological matters.

          So the institution by the Emperor of ecumenical councils was           considered to be the act not of a political leader, but of the leader   of the Christian people. The Emperor was automatically asked to           intervene in theological arguments. The general councils were           summoned and guided by imperial authority. (O’Grady, p. 90)

Wrangling with Words and Each Other

The visible church became a battle ground for one controversy after another. One Greek letter left in or omitted became the source of endless in-fighting. When the bishops should have put their hands over their mouths, they kept going on and on into areas of speculation to refute the “heretics.”

          The Greeks, who adopted the new religion, brought with them           their love of disputation and logical definition. (O’Grady, p. 89)           The attempt to combat Gnosticism with definitions was to give           rise to further definitions, and then to further arguments about           those definitions, and so to accusations and counter-accusations of           heresy . . . . But once the questions were raised and other           ‘heretics’ gave their response, it seemed that an official answer           had to be given. It may have been necessary to have definitions,           but it is possible that the very act of defining distorts the           understanding of that which lies beyond logic. (O’Grady, p. 33)

          In studying these controversies and the Councils that attempted to           settle them, it often seems that their endless dissentions,           condemnations and counter-condemnations were merely           theologians’ quarrels about the detailed use of words, and about           minute differences in the ‘expression of the inexpressible.’ St.           Hilary of Poitiers, writing to the Emperor Constantine           complained that “Every year, nay every moon, we make new           creeds to describe invisible Mysteries. CULT We  research that junk out here ,,done, we defend those who repent, we anathematize those whom    we defended. We condemn either the doctrine of others in          ourselves or our own in that of others; and, reciprocally tearing      one another to pieces, we have been the cause of each other’s     ruin.” (O’Grady, p. 89)

It Was Always About Power and Control ,,coming back to our true faith..


With the increasing definition of “orthodoxy,” the “bishops demanded from their faithful” a “blind faith” and “mindless trust” (Valantasis, p. 126). From cradle to grave the dark cloud of the church hovered over them, packaged in seven “sacraments” and a labyrinth of other religious rituals and duties. Is it any wonder that when civil liberties emerged much later, people exited from the churches? Henri Nouwen made these pointed observations:

          When I ask myself the main reason for so many people having left           the church during the past decades in France, Germany, Holland,           and also in Canada and America, the word “power” easily comes   to mind. One of the greatest ironies of the history of Christianity        is that its leaders constantly gave in to the temptation of power –    political power, military power, economic power, amen true fully corrupted !!!!!!or moral and           spiritual power – even though they continued to speak in the     name of Jesus, who did not cling to his divine power but emptied      himself and became as we are. We keep hearing from others, as         well as saying to ourselves, that having power – provided it is used   in the service of God and your fellow human beings – is a good thing.
With this rationalization, crusades took place; inquisitions were organized; Indians were enslaved; positions of great       influence were desired; episcopal palaces, splendid cathedrals, and opulent seminaries were built; and much moral manipulation of conscience was engaged in. Every time we see a major crisis in        the history of the church, such as the Great Schism of the eleventh       century, the Reformation of the sixteenth century, or the immense      secularization of the twentieth century, we always see that a     major cause of rupture is the power exercised by those who claim     to be followers of the poor and powerless Jesus. (In the Name of       Jesus, pp. 75-77)

          Power offers an easy substitute for the hard task of love. It seems easier to be God than to love God easier to control people than to love people, easier to own life than to love life. Jesus asks, “Do you love me?” We ask, “Can we sit at your right hand and your left in your Kingdom?” (In the Name of Jesus, p. 77)

          The long painful history of the church is the history of people ever and again tempted to choose power over love, control over the cross, being a leader over being led. (In the Name of Jesus, pp. 78- 79) well said for sure it is deeply immersed in the it’s poison sir..

          One thing is clear to me: The temptation of power is greatest when intimacy is feared. Much Christian leadership is exercised by people who do not know how to develop healthy, intimate relationships and have opted for power and control instead. Many Christian empire builders have been people unable to give and receive love. (In the Name of Jesus, p. 79)

An Example of “Outside the Box”

“Montanus was the male founder” of a movement, and he “began to prophesy in Phrygia, in Asia Minor (modern Turkey) sometime around 170 C.E.” (Valantasis, p. 100)

This “group of Christians who broke away from the main Church in the second half of the second century were the Montanists . . . . they sought a return to the purity of original Christianity, declaring that the rules governing the ethical behavior of Christians were not given through the authority of bishops and Church institutions, but by God alone, speaking through the inspired prophets . . . . His [Montanus] declared mission was to bring about a return to the simplicity of the early Church, and to announce the fulfillment of the prophecy of Pentecost.” (O’Grady, p. 60)

“Montanus called forth a vision of a church renewed – filled with the Holy Spirit, alive with fresh prophecy, and eagerly awaiting the imminent return of Christ.” (Valantasis, p. 100) “The Montanists . . . aimed at a freer, more emotional form of religion.” (O’Grady, p. 60)

Women fully participated in this movement. (Valantasis, p. 102) “Woman after woman, then man after man, would channel words from God, while the others listened attentively.” (Valantasis, p. 99)?

“The Montanists understood their new prophecy as a renewal movement for an increasingly decadent church.”(Valantasis, p. 101)

They did not challenge the main church’s sacramental and hierarchical system. (Valantasis, p. 102) “Their fervency for reform did not extend to their church’s structure,” and thus they ordained women and men as “deacons, presbyters (priests) and bishops.” (Valantasis, pp. 103, 102) “The famous North African Latin theologian Tertullian (160-225) converted to the movement and wrote energetically from a Montanist perspective.” (Valantasis, p. 105)?

My purpose here is not to defend or condemn what the Montanists practiced. Rather, it is to underscore that this “outside the box” group deeply disturbed those in power in the “orthodox” church. “Obviously the leadership of the church could not have people claiming to channel the divine voice directly . . . and so the Montanists eventually were excommunicated.” (Valantasis, p. 104) true they were ,

“Mysticism in an organization leads to a crisis of authority, and many of the internal disputes of the first three centuries of the Christian church concerned the problem of revelations.” (Fanning, p. 19)

“The reaction of the anti-Montanist Christians indicates that the mainstream of Christianity no longer experienced possession by the Holy Spirut as a normative feature of the faith . . . . The promise of the unmediated, indwelling divinity within the believer offered a means of bypassing the authority of the emerging hierarchy of bishops . . . . Moreover, the prominence of the prophetesses was considered to be unseemly by the male clergy.” (Fanning, pp. 20-21)

Church people had to be watchful of anything “that challenged in any manner the authority of the ecclesiastical leaders, or of its increasingly specific and narrowing orthodox faith.” (Fanning, p. 21)  As I.M. Lewis put it, “direct claim to divine knowledge is always a threat to the established order.” (Fanning, p. 21) true!!!

By the fourth century “there was a conflict between those who saw Christianity as a religion of the mind, a system of beliefs about God that was governed by the Scriptures, and those who saw Christianity as an experience of God.” the unchanged ones.(Fanning, p. 34).

The Montanists vividly illustrate what happened to any group in the future – like the Donatists -- who pursued things in a different way, outside of the “orthodox” hierarchy.

Did Christ Build This Mess?never  the ancient mysteries were enter the people were kept ignorant to just recently as the nature of the perversion taking place about truth,, into that was the toxin  that would produce the powerless estate you now see sir. cult mix sir is what quenches the spirit , Israel had to lean it as well as we are going to, out get saved by fall sleep in lethargic condition to their surroundings  no spirit warfare abilities other than  voting good Luck in the world of Hegelians  lies and state religions ....fs
I have given above a concise, condensed summary of some key characteristics of the post-apostolic church –
 **that bishops became very powerful, and submission to God was equated with submission to them; money

**that civil rulers became the controlling factor in church affairs;called stupid

**that a central church hierarchy and a doctrinal system called “orthodoxy” were put into place in order to control peoples’ lives;Sick smile

**that those outside of the hierarchy and “orthodoxy” were viewed as “heretics” who were harassed and often killed; Satanism  with in, he is murderer, liar,as Jesus said he was and is,   sir Jesus does not murder his kids man does fs

**that in all these matters and more, what began when Christ came to the ekklesia in the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost was long-lost after AD 150 in a growing ecclesiastical bureaucracy. they milked the people for money and their lives fs

Now I have a critical question for you to consider. But before the question, I want to set before you a little snapshot of “church life” in the fifth century.

          A Council was summoned at Ephesus in 431. The city mob demonstrated violently against the ‘opponents of the Mother of           God.’ The Emperor intervened, and, at one time during the roceedings, imprisoned both Cyril and Nestorius. Churchmen           condemned each other; the common people rioted; the Imperial           civil servants carried on intrigues between both     parties. Finally, [Emperor] Theodosius dismissed the Council saying, quite rightly, that it had failed to achieve reconciliation. But Nestorius himself was condemned as a heretic, deposed and exiled. (O’Grady, p. 103 a few saw deep lies , amen
Same today .
So “church” then consisted of Emperors changing their theological views pragmatically, depending on various circumstances, and “bishops changed sides according to who was Emperor.” (O’Grady, p. 106) Keep in mind that “three years after accepting the decrees of the Council of Nicea, Constantine changed his mind, recalled Arius from exile and supported the anti-Nicene party until the end of his reign.” (O’Grady, p. 92) it never stopped doing it either sir , still lie about it now... easy to do  when the masses are so institutionalized,  the ability to think for themselves is nill at best ...

The vital question is this: are you prepared to equate Christ’s words, “I will build My ekklesia,” with the Roman Catholic and Protestant Reformation churches? Do we really believe that Christ was the Architect of these Institutional Churches? Did He build these religious bureaucracies or did humans craving power and control?man sir purely man... sir and  in this case lost in  it...

I know this: Christ has always been building His ekklesia, but not in organizations that are intertwined with State power, not in organizations that depend on State support and backing for their existence, and not in organizations that murder people “outside the box” in Jesus’ name. amen we are free here sir.... few there be all that matters  what is with me is worth the purest gold  to come sir, Paul was such, I do miss him but he is free now,  our kingdom is not of this word either , we to will year for this day you shall be with me in paradise , 

What happened in AD 451 in those riotous mobs, in those theological fights, and in the Emperor’s presence at the Council was not Christ. It was flesh; it was control; it was power. 

Just because an institution calls itself “Church” does not mean it has anything to do with Christ. We need to come to terms with this reality. When Jesus builds something, it is Spirit, and it is Love. Further, Christ builds out of weakness, not fleshly power and control. As Nouwen put it so well –





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